tol1
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Posts posted by tol1
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Good morning -
How do you professional investors manage your portfolio? What rules are you strictly following? I am not just referring to industry and geography diversification, but also to gross vs net exposure, beta exposure both on longs and shorts, duration of longs vs shorts, and anything else that is important to consider when building a portfolio.
Thanks
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Gents
Does anyone know if any of the more trading-oriented hedge funds has a more long-term, fundamental strategy? In other words, longer holding periods and less trading. Thinking about Point 72, Millennium, Balyasny, Citadel, DE Shaw, Farallon.
Any insight is highly appreciated.
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Gents
I usually spread historicals manually across years - that means learning about the company / financials, but takes a long time. What source do you use to download historicals (all 3 statements) reliably? Cap IQ or BB or anything else? I want to make my research process more efficient that way.
Thank you
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Moving the discussion slightly back to the original question. The very few "superinvestors" whom I or my friends/colleagues have met seem to either work with their founding partners only or their initial start-up has evolved to a massive organisation. If one works for the latter, it will be challenging to work directly for the founder/s.
IMO it appears the only way is to "spot" future Klarman's (if there are any at all) - and that is rather speculation. I am just stuck to the notion that it would be most helpful if one worked for a strong, established investor prior to starting and scaling an own shop.
IMO it really depends on the person and the circumstances. There are people who do just fine by starting their own shop without working elsewhere. There are people who do fine starting their shop after working in corporate not-legendary offices. There are people who do great after working for legends. There are also people who don't do well in exact the same scenarios.
I don't want to psychoanalize - so please forgive me - but it looks like you're looking for others to say "yeah, you have to work for legend first". Yeah, sure working for legend first would open a lot of doors. But you have to realize that percentage-wise the number of people who get to work for legends is very low. So it's up to you to try to get a position with legendary investor, but likely you won't. There's only one Tracy Britt Cool in the last 30 years+ (Todd and Ted don't count - they went to work for Buffett after being successful investors not before). So IMO you're severely handicapping yourself if you think that working for a legend is the only way to get a good career/results/etc.
Edit: regarding spotting-future-Klarman - this is as hard as spotting-future-Klarman to invest with them. I think people already suggested to you to go to BRK/Fairfax/DJCO/BOMN/SYTE/whatever annual investor meetings and network with CoBF/etc/investor/hedge crowd there. This might give you opportunities. You might even corner Whitney Tilson or Mohnish Pabrai in one of these. Though I still think that discovering future Klarman ... and clicking with them enough so that they'll hire you ... is not going to be easy.
Good luck.
Point well made. I personally have noticed that working for a top tier hedge fund in a large corporate-like environment is not enough, but rather working directly for an experienced investor with the same investment philosophy and mindset. I think professional investors go through phases that start with finding the right investment strategy to finding the right working environment that enables to practice the very strategy - latter, as you rightly say, can come in many shapes and forms.
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Moving the discussion slightly back to the original question. The very few "superinvestors" whom I or my friends/colleagues have met seem to either work with their founding partners only or their initial start-up has evolved to a massive organisation. If one works for the latter, it will be challenging to work directly for the founder/s.
IMO it appears the only way is to "spot" future Klarman's (if there are any at all) - and that is rather speculation. I am just stuck to the notion that it would be most helpful if one worked for a strong, established investor prior to starting and scaling an own shop.
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There is value depending on who you work for. I can tell you I’ve seen some one man shops do some insanely amazing things that don’t even seem possible who worked for a “legend”. Unfortunately I am sworn to secrecy via contract to go into any more detail than that. But all I will say there are methods used that even the vast majority of the value investing community doesn’t know about to get a real edge.
Mysterious - I have worked for a very good US hedge fund, so I know what the industry is capable of. Can you elaborate on what one man shops are capable of doing according to you as much as possible?
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I worked at Bridgewater at the start of my career.
Was placed there be a recruiter.
Meaning part of the firm in the beginning?
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Thanks - it is a legitimate and interesting question. I am investor myself (beginning of my career) and am aware that many "legends" simply work on their own. However, if possible, I'd be keen to hear how proteges have managed to get their seat.
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WB worked for a legend (BG) and so did Klarman (MP) and a few others at an early stage of their career.
Has anyone here worked for (or currently is) a so called "legend"? How did you get into that seat?
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Have been watching and listening to the wealth of interviews WB has given to date.
Outside the AGMs, what are your favourite longer videos / audios with WB?
Please paste any links.
A start: Interview with Thunderbird college -
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From the positions I see they still have significant overlaps. Keen to hear from current or ex-Tiger guys on portfolio turnover and the amount of work that goes into single investments.
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Why "were"? There are still a few 1st generations ones investing.
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Anyone has first-hand (or quality second-) experience of how trading-heavy the Tiger cubs are? Any of them true value investors with longer-term holding periods?
Tx
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Not sure about the Consultant piece in Europe frankly. Fund founders I know do the marketing with an internal guy or start off by themselves. Interestingly, there is a few shops in Spain; the value investing culture is nurturing over there.
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After a trip to the Eastcoast I headed back to London and wondered why the City lacks institutional value investment firms. There are the Oldfields and Bauposts (with a small office), but I just cannot help wondering why so few firms run a value investing strategy out of London. I am not referring to mom and pop shops and one-man bands who manage their retirement.
Why are there so few fundamental equities investment firms in London? Maybe I missed a few names, so please chip in.
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Hey,
As most if not all investors are constantly improving their knowledge, I have recognized that I have to improve how to market myself within an organization. As a professional investor I am a researcher, focused on numbers; however, when it comes to do marketing for myself internally, I just do not know how to do it in a sincere and effective way. Are there any recommended seminars or books? Something a la Dale Carnegie Public Speaking for Buffett.
Thanks
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Hello,
I am having discussions with start-up investment funds. Having worked on the buy-side and comparing salaries with friends in the industry I have a decent overview on compensation levels. Needless to say that start-up funds carry greater risk and typically offer lower base salaries. There are 2 challenges I see:
1. Cities such as NYC and London have high living costs, so a minimum salary is required.
2. The potential "next" employer will always refer one to the last base salary, so one does not want to go too low.
How would you approach the discussion? I am willing to take the risk given the variable upside, but I think some level of experience (years and buy-side) should be accounted for as well.
What level is the absolute minimum in your view?
Thanks for the thoughts
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Thanks everyone - what about the other names? Are there names that should be included for a value-based, fundamental equities strategy with a rather concentrated portfolio based out of London?
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Interesting. Would you mind sharing a couple of the resources someone might use to find out this information? Feel free to PM if you'd rather not publicize them.
UK: https://www.fca.org.uk/markets/short-selling/notification-and-disclosure-net-short-positions
just google for every country
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Orbis is a great place to learn how to do investing. They are all Buffett fans at the core but also pragmatic enough to understand the attraction of growth stocks, that's why they have been outperforming while many other "value shops" struggled in the past few years.
The culture is super meritocratic, you either make 10% alpha or you're out.
They publish their holdings on a monthly basis so you can pretty much see everything they do. They are definitely not a "me-too" shop.
Southeastern Asset Management - the performance has been pretty poor to say the least. For the past 10 years, you'd be much better off buying the S&P.
Thank you for this. I was told the turnover at Orbis is very high and hardly anyone becomes PM. High turnover is a major red flag IMO.
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there have been a few recent threads on vic, just search for them
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Am compiling names with a value-based strategy in equities, that have a strong track record and are based in London. Have you guys come across following names and know more about culture, comp levels, discretion and the usual stuff that cannot be googled in seconds? Please PM me, if you do not want to share your thoughts openly on the shops.
Oldfield Partners
Marathon Asset Management (not the credit shop)
Orbis
Phoenix Asset Management
Southeastern Asset Management
Chilton Investment
Thanks
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Credit where credit is due, this is from a twitter user called Kong Ming. Old but still good. I'll probably delete this post soon.
Thank you, indeed.
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No it isn't. And certainly not via blast furnace. Which is mostly what the listed guys do. And you don't really want to own long steel generally as it's much more commodity.
Don't mistake a cyclical upturn for a structural change in rates.
EAF steel production has been growing. I am looking at the entire supply chain and not just the producers.
New Yorker article on Paul Singer -Elliott
in General Discussion
Posted
Elliott is not high-quality investing IMO. Their style is self-fulfilling, from buying into a stock post-profit warning and demanding a sale process to buying a stake a la NXPI and asking for more. Annualized return has been around 13%, so it works for their LPs. However, I do not consider it investing. Their strategy only works in size (AuM) to cover the high fixed costs (in particular, lawyer fees).