Myth465

Thanks for your thoughts coc and welcome to the board.

Bronco we arent even having a conversation. You again arent reading what I write. Instead you are beating up a straw-man. I never said anything about 40%, and really the only thing I have said on taxation is I would support what Paul Ryan recommended, and we should pay for the government we have not want. You keep talking about rates and double taxation, and you are winning the argument but its against a straw-man. Also no facts needed, you are correct - all the entitlement programs are a mess, and we do likely have higher unfunded liabilities then any other country. Some say its as high as 7x GDP. ---- This article gets to the heart of the issue. http://www.gurufocus.com/news.php?id=107397 Since Keynesian economics is no longer relevant, some are now arguing that tax cuts will save the day. Two of the academic studies we reviewed suggest that tax relief is a much stronger stimulus to the economy than government spending, and under normal circumstances this is probably true. But we are not in a normal economic environment. Even if the tax cuts implemented by George Bush in 2006 are extended by the next Congress, the US will still face the ‘Keynesian Endpoint’. A Government Accountability Office (GAO) report published in January 2010 states the following: “In our Alternative simulation, which assumes expiring tax provisions are extended through 2020 and revenue is held constant at the 40-year historical average; roughly 93 cents of every dollar of federal revenue will be spent on the major entitlement programs and net interest costs by 2020.”12 Extending tax cuts won’t solve anything. INMO we need to reform things, cutting taxes prior to that process wont address our problems. You cant seriously be pro tax cuts and anti deficit. Pick one.

Realistically most governments can do whatever they want. Americans have actual rights but also have to give up something as well (taxes). I wise more people went to or read about other countries where people literally have no rights and can be disappeared for what they say. People want "economic liberty, justice, freedom, and all that" but still want a civilized society. They want a right to security (police and military), clean water, paved roads, safe working environments, and all this other stuff but want to pay no to little taxes. I don't know what fantasy world they are living in, do you?

You guys had a full helping of Ayn Rand this morning, with a glass of Murray Rothbard ;D. I have read it all, and don't need it rehashed. No one is actually responding to anything written. I could just save myself the time and go to libertarian talkingpoints.com. It astounds me that you can make more then 98% of people who live in the same country as you and still not be rich. Freedom, Liberty, Founding Fathers, Principles, Socialism, Class War, blah blah blah. We got bills to pay. I get it you guys made money and want to keep it (I am a fan of just being honest). We all do. The challenge is to design and fight for a government which allows you to do that (based on the principles that folks like both Paul Ryan, and Obama have accepted), not this starve the beast plan. Your basic argument is screw the country. I want whats mine (the middle class has the same argument, they are just a bigger voting block). Its fair enough, but drop the flag waving bs. Obama is far form a socialist and neither am I. The country has serious issues which need to be solved, and this focus on tax cuts is not the solution to any of our problems regardless of whatever faulty economic logic (trickle down) or patriot verbiage you want to use to justify them. ---- Perhaps you would. I wouldn't. Neither would most Women, or other Minorities. I prefer thought and work to solve today's problems not someone stuck in the 1800s, for the sake of being stuck in the 1800s.

Where is the link?

I agree with Buffett mainly because I hope to enter the wealthy class. I think you have worked hard and earned your money. I think you deserve it and should keep it also. I am open to a variety of tax skims, as long as they are progressive in nature, but not overly punitive. I have listened to interviews this week with Peter Ozarq, and Paul Ryan and find myself agreeing with both. I could go with a Paul Ryan type tax situation. I agree with you, with $250,000 you cant save your way to wealth, but I dont think one can be truly wealthy off hourly / salary pay. Real wealth comes from investing or royalties, or options. Im squarely in the middle class at less then 75k but more than 50k, but with no kids. I would actually agree with Ozarq though, even though it would raise my taxes. We should repeal all the tax cuts. America cant afford them and has no political will to cut spending or raise taxes. One must pay for the government or lifestyle they have and can afford, not the one they want. If you want lower taxes work to change the Government (cut spending) then lower taxes. The other way around never seems to work and will create a crisis for your Children (and Me when im old). I would love to cut taxes, but lets cut spending first. I cant support a tax cut until I see fiscal sanity from Washington (and the right is worse then the left INMO). With that said I want more, I am not rich. But I know for someone living in the South I am doing damn well. I know there are a hell of alot of people with families of 4 making 30k. I cant imagine how they survive, and would have a damn hard time looking them in the eye and telling them im not rich (and thats at 60k). As Buffett said being born in the US, makes you rich relatively speaking. Compared to Buffett, Gates, and Slim we are all poor - but look behind you before you decide. This is coming from a guy who wouldn't feel rich with $2 million in the bank.

I am sure if you made $500k you wouldn't consider yourself rich either, dispute the fact that you made more then probably 94% of Americans and probably 99% of those on the planet. People have a funny way of looking at things. Its not light your cigar with $100 bills rich, but its doing pretty damn well.

This whole debate is ridiculous no one but Buffett thinks they are rich. $250,000 aint enough to retire off of but its more than like 95% of all other Americans. Couldnt we all agree that's pretty well off. Hell $100k is pretty well off. I say open your eyes - the vast majority (something like 90%) of your country man make less than that. Taxation is another conversation but if you make more then 90% of everyone else then I think you could be considered well off.

This is true and gives Canada a good place to put that gas now that the US is awash in it. I think LNG needs to take off. Im always shocked when I see $8 gas in Europe and Asia. With Europe getting into Shale though who knows how long that will last. The wild card will be fracing environmental issues and what they do to the industry.

Thanks for the idea. I looked at Compton over the last few years and the debt always worried me. It seems as though they have solved that problem. My issue now is natural gas stinks and will probably stink for a while, and Canadian natural is even worse due to the discount. The cash flow that Compton was always known for has been hurt by the fall in gas and at 85% you really need a rebound for this to work. I really like Sandridge given they have oil and gas. With that said its cheap and your math looks interesting so I plan to dig a bit deeper. Thanks again.

I agree. I wish I had more time for research. Everything is moving this week, and looks like we are on to a mini rally. Garmin looks like its working out. I want a slightly bigger margin but will be watching it. I sold alot of stuff that would have done 10% - 15% yearly because I want some capital for more ideas like this, Garmin, Heeleys, WDC, ATSG, FBK (been a bit of a dog but hopefully it works out).

I bought a tiny bit as well. It seems like a heads I win x 5 or tails I lose x 1. I figured what the hell.

I do. I hold ESV and was happy to see him take a position. Seems like a sharp guy.

Same But will go up soon enough if you guys don't mind me asking, why is that the case? 2. large seasonal unknown due to the Hurricane season (I think it is it) This combined with the fact that my position was in leaps and was quite oversized caused me to sell. Cost me about 30 - 50% in returns but oh well. I plan to buy back after the season as long as I can get in right around book value. Then it will be a long term buy and hold unless it hits 2x book.

Same But will go up soon enough

http://seekingalpha.com/article/223860-quick-idea-cal-dive-international + http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39195347/ns/us_news-environment/ http://blogs.barrons.com/stockstowatchtoday/2010/09/15/superior-energy-tetra-spike-on-report-gulf-wells-plugged/?mod=yahoobarrons = $ Hopefully. Its a bit early but I bought. I was going to wait until there presentation, but probably should have bought last week.

This seems like a no brainier. Even if you are only half right that is $1 billion in additional value. I think people are having trouble modeling cash flow and production due to all the moving pieces and that is why the price is low. I think with 50% returns per well, and 30 - 40 rigs running drilling horizontal wells its easy to say cash flow will grow quite a bit. SD for a while was selling for a market cap right about the value of the Arena purchase. Once cash flow and market cap goes up. The debt will look a bit more reasonable, and they can retire some. This new core land is a nice kicker.

Very interesting and it still under $5 ;) I need to listen to a replay and get some more cash.

This new presentation has some nice updates. Q3 and tomorrows presentation should be interesting. I knew they would ramp up fast but man these guys can move.

You are probably right, but I learned over the last few years that buying something you kind of have a grasp (in reality you dont) on can really burn you. I know investment banks arent in my circle of confidence and dont really understand regular banks. I get the concept but cant see how it translates into the numbers. I know in 8 years they will be higher but I think or hope I can get 12% in much easier ways. Either that or work to understand these things.

Agreed, You can do much better parking that dividend in cash and then buying on down 3% days and maybe selling on up 4% days a few months later. I would only DRIP if buying what I wanted would move the stock. Luckily or unluckily I am not there yet.

Wouldnt the stock jump as they get closer? The stock would loss some of its cheapness.

I still have banks in the too hard pile. At least with manufacturing / service companies I know how I got screwed. It seems like with banks you can be hit with a huge loss out of nowhere.

Thanks very interesting. It appears that Western Digital is in the same spot. I wonder if the debt could be paid off from abroad without paying taxes. I assume alot of that cash is in dollars, but held in foreign accounts.