Investor20

Isn't it obvious to you? ::) Don't bother... No its not obvious.. Geographically near had nothing to do with how this virus spread. Most countries that are close to China...even with heavy travel such as SE asian countries have low Covid. Even HongKong did well. So you tell me what criteria you used in picking three out of a lot of European countries to compare?

Fauci essentially is saying that he is confident that he isn't sick today if he was not sick yesterday. That holds true every day going forward if it holds true for the last day past. In other words, everybody testing positive today will never get the virus. As I said, I am not defending Dr. Fauci logic. But Dr. Fauci is Pence expert.

Pence was in a hospital where there is an explicit rule about everybody wearing masks (everybody else was following that rule), and he was visiting patients. He wasn't in a press conference room in a federal building where everybody gets screened constantly. See also: https://medium.com/@casanderson/mike-pence-and-the-bystander-effect-a698bbbe4d18 I am not defending Dr. Fauci logic. But Dr. Fauci logic is if someone is tested negative, atleast in immediate future, they dont have to wear masks. Pence is using the same logic (as his expert Dr. Fauci told) that Pence got recently tested negative.

Taleb: Also: "Vitamin D Insufficiency is Prevalent in Severe COVID-19" https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.24.20075838v1 There are major exceptions to "Sweden now has one of the highest per capita COVID death rates in the world" statement. As per worldometer deaths/million Belgium, Spain, Italy, UK, France, Netherlands have more per capita than Sweden. That is a major portion of Europe has more than Sweden. Sweden with 263 deaths/million is not that higher than Ireland 256 Switzerland 202 USA 196 Why select three out of all these countries?

P is for Pence ;D https://nypost.com/2020/04/05/dr-anthony-fauci-tests-negative-for-the-coronavirus/ Dr. Anthony Fauci tests negative for the coronavirus Fauci was responding to a reporter’s question about why he was not wearing a face mask during the White House’s daily press briefing when he shared the test results. “The major reason to wear a face mask, is to protect you from infecting you,” Fauci said while pointing into the press gallery. “I had my test yesterday and it’s negative,” he said. I believe that is the same reason Pence gave. But really who is wearing? Cuomo, Newsom, Brix, Fauci?

Taiwan was from January onwards recommending masks, washing/sanitizing hands and social distancing. NY, started in March for social distancing. Masks from two weeks back.

Yes...US is better than most European countries except Germany. Eg. France 362 Most South East Asian countries are far better than Europe or US. I think its because of masks policy. Germany made masks compulsory with potential fines few days back in certain crowded places.

Wow! Who knew? No, I mean literally WHO knew. Here is video from a WHO briefing on February 4th discussing asymptomatic transmission: Can I suggest you save your efforts to scapegoat WHO for your Facebook friends? You do realize that WHO has the budget of one large U.S. hospital? It is a small group of underfunded bureaucrats not a wealthy gang of super-villians? OK...you can go by a briefing where WHO said there is a possibility of asymptomatic transmission and ignore their published guidelines on April 2nd. WHO guidelines on masks: https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public/when-and-how-to-use-masks If you are healthy, you only need to wear a mask if you are taking care of a person with COVID-19. Wear a mask if you are coughing or sneezing. Wondering if you agree with it?

It's just unfair to compare Germany, which is led by a former quantum chemist, to the USA which is led by a reality TV persona. You don't have to go to PhDs in quantum chemistry... In general, it's hard to find a country led by someone dumber than the US right now. There's a lot of countries on the planet, so there's probably some out there, but none come to mind. From Worldometer Deaths/Million Taiwan: 0.3 Japan: 3 S. Korea: 5 Germany: 74 Why do you think Germany is doing better than Taiwan, Japan, or S. Korea? Did I say that? No. Who ever said the following which I bolded in my comments "And look at South Korea and Taiwan (in terms of communication and follow-up action). These countries did not have all the same prescriptions but " (comparing to Germany)

It's just unfair to compare Germany, which is led by a former quantum chemist, to the USA which is led by a reality TV persona. You don't have to go to PhDs in quantum chemistry... In general, it's hard to find a country led by someone dumber than the US right now. There's a lot of countries on the planet, so there's probably some out there, but none come to mind. From Worldometer Deaths/Million Taiwan: 0.3 Japan: 3 S. Korea: 5 Germany: 74 Why do you think Germany is doing better than Taiwan, Japan, or S. Korea?

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/germans-could-be-fined-up-to-e2-82-ac10000-for-not-wearing-face-masks/ar-BB13gFo6 Germans could be fined up to €10,000 for not wearing face masks New rules have come into force legally requiring most people in Germany to wear face masks on public transport, long-distance trains and in shops. The so-called Maskenpflicht (mask duty) was introduced in 15 of the country’s 16 states on Monday morning. The northern state of Schleswig-Holstein will on Wednesday be the last state to implement the legislation. Fines of between €25 and €10,000 can be imposed on those who fail to wear a mask, with rates differing widely across the country, and some states, such as Berlin and Brandenburg, insisting they would not levy fines at all, but would rely instead on people showing each other mutual respect by wearing them.

Did you actually read any of these "reports"? (WHO means published research studies not popular press clippings. Posting multiple articles that discuss the same case doesn't bolster your argument.) Referencing a Chinese case (edit: this is actually the same case as the german case below): Referencing a German case: Referencing a Taiwan case: So most of the cases mentioned were actually mildly symptomatic or presymptomatic, not "truly asymptomatic". In that bulletin, WHO clearly stated that presymptomatic and asymptomatic transmission was possible. No, I did not read each study. But I read several news articles. February 13, 2020 https://nypost.com/2020/02/13/coronavirus-can-be-spread-by-people-who-dont-show-symptoms-cdc-warns/ Coronavirus can be spread through people who aren’t exhibiting symptoms of the illness, the director of the Centers for Disease and Control and Prevention said Thursday.

APRIL 2 WHO report: "There are few reports of laboratory-confirmed cases who are truly asymptomatic, and to date, there has been no documented asymptomatic transmission." https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200402-sitrep-73-covid-19.pdf Why is WHO so wrong on everything? Can I suggest that the problem isn't WHO, but your inability to read or think for yourself? The WHO bulletin you posted says: They are summarizing the reports that were available on April 2nd. Most of the studies showing asymptomatics were published after April 2nd. The author likely didn't read the reuters article from April 24th because time machines are so expensive. -- This is probably too subtle for you to comprehend, but few of the reports you are referring (including this prisons report) are even capable of determining whether someone is truly asymptomatic (as defined in that WHO bulletin). The researchers would need to monitor for 14 days to determine whether symptoms later develop. There are a couple studies that have done this, but most, if not all, published after April 2nd. There are really three categories of "silent spreaders": Presymptomatic - no symptoms at time of test, but will go on to develop symptoms. Subclinical - symptoms are so mild or atypical, that patient or doctor doesn't notice them or consider them COVID symptoms (perhaps a slight change in pulse or breathing). Truly asymptomatic There isn't any clear answer on what the relative proportions are. Even some people who think they have no symptoms show significant lung damage on CT scans. That is absolutely wrong. I can give a lot of references to asymptomatic before April 2nd. But here are four examples: April 2: https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/02/politics/fact-check-georgia-gov-brian-kemp-coronavirus-no-symptoms-stay-at-home/index.html Fact check: Georgia governor says we only just learned people without symptoms could spread coronavirus. Experts have been saying that for months February 10: https://focustaiwan.tw/society/202002100010 Asymptomatic transmission of Wuhan virus 'almost certain': expert February 24 https://www.sciencealert.com/researchers-confirmed-patients-can-transmit-the-coronavirus-without-showing-symptoms A Person Can Carry And Transmit COVID-19 Without Showing Symptoms, Scientists Confirm January 27th https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/masks-out-as-japan-s-korea-report-new-cases the fact that carriers of the virus may not show detectable symptoms has been a major cause of concern. So why does WHO says on April 2nd "There are few reports of laboratory-confirmed cases who are truly asymptomatic, and to date, there has been no documented asymptomatic transmission.""

APRIL 2 WHO report: "There are few reports of laboratory-confirmed cases who are truly asymptomatic, and to date, there has been no documented asymptomatic transmission." https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200402-sitrep-73-covid-19.pdf Why is WHO so wrong on everything? How does WHO think the virus is spreading so fast? They think lot of people are going around sneezing and coughing? Its beyond stupidity to say no asymptomatic transmission. I'm far from approving WHO but I can tell you why. It's because they need significant scientific evidence to make any particular claim. Things like asymptomatic transmission, immunity for those infected, the benefit of wearing masks, etc., are all very hard to scientifically validate (i.e., with significant enough sample size), especially with a new virus. The problem is that many of the governments are relying on WHO because they want to act based on scientific evidence. In some sense, they have became slave to the process, while perhaps they just need to act fast and safe. Science might be the best thing the mankind has created, but it shouldn't constrain us from taking the most reasonable action. The scientific validation is that virus cannot spread so fast without asymptomatic transmission. How strong a scientific validation is required is based on what are the negative consequences of an action. Countries like Taiwan, Korea and Japan were worried about asymptomatic transmission and started requiring masks in January itself for everyone. I gave links to this in this thread earlier which show that by January itself they were talking about significant asymptomatic transmission in Korea and Japan. If masks did not really make a difference, at most people would have been uncomfortable for a while to wear them. What scientific validation did WHO have for lockdowns which has major downturn including as per UN hundreds of thousands of childrens death, millions pushed in poverty? Dont you require much higher scientific validation for a lockdown with major negative consequences rather than assume no asymptomatic transmission and not require masks and safe guards that mitigate asymptomatic transmission? If professional masks were not available, they could have asked people to cover their face with a cloth. It is weird to require strong scientific validation for covering face with mask or cloth and not require that for lockdown.

APRIL 2 WHO report: "There are few reports of laboratory-confirmed cases who are truly asymptomatic, and to date, there has been no documented asymptomatic transmission." https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200402-sitrep-73-covid-19.pdf Why is WHO so wrong on everything? How does WHO think the virus is spreading so fast? They think lot of people are going around sneezing and coughing? Its beyond stupidity to say no asymptomatic transmission.

There goes that lone example from the “do nothing” crowd. But what do you expect from people who lack any sense of objectivity and scientific literacy? Often wrong, never in doubt. I think at this point, the Swedes have done OK in my opinion. As long as their health care system isn’t crashing in Stockholm, where the population density is highest, their approach isn’t really a failure. They try to get herd immunity at an acceptable cost (in terms of lives). So far, by their own judgement, that is still the case and who are we to judge otherwise? Also, besides that , Sweden isn’t really normal either, they just have a soft shutdown instead off hard one. not too different from what we have in some states in the US. https://www.thelocal.se/20200424/interview-isabella-lovin-coronavirus-the-biggest-myth-about-sweden-is-that-life-is-going-on-as-normal The plot ignores several other countries: Deaths/Million from worldometer: Belgium: 612 Spain: 496 Italy: 441 France: 350 UK 305 Netherlands: 261 Ireland: 220 Sweden: 217 USA 167

APRIL 2 WHO report: "There are few reports of laboratory-confirmed cases who are truly asymptomatic, and to date, there has been no documented asymptomatic transmission." https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200402-sitrep-73-covid-19.pdf Why is WHO so wrong on everything?

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/nearly-a-third-of-coronavirus-antibody-test-participants-show-exposure-in-massachusetts Nearly a third of coronavirus antibody test participants show exposure in Massachusetts Researchers collected drops of blood from residents in Chelsea, Massachusetts, and determined that 64 people tested positive out of 200 for antibodies linked to COVID-19. Getting closer to herd immunity? At 30%, we can stop worrying about false positives.

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article242260406.html About 6 percent of Miami-Dade’s population — about 165,000 residents — have antibodies indicating a past infection by the novel coronavirus, dwarfing the state health department’s tally of about 10,600 cases, according to preliminary study results announced by University of Miami researchers Friday. UM researchers used statistical methods to account for the limitations of the antibody test, which is known to generate some false positive results. The researchers say they are 95% certain that the true amount of infection lies between 4.4% and 7.9% of the population, with 6% representing the best estimate. This article does not give fatality rate. But the following article says "Miami-Dade has confirmed 11,005 cases with 295 deaths". https://www.local10.com/news/local/2020/04/24/florida-passes-1000-coronavirus-deaths-and-30000-cases/ (295/165,000)*100 = 0.17% IFR At lower end of 4.4% or 121,000 infected (295/121,000)*100 = 0.24% IFR Interesting that the death rate is low in Miami Dade with higher portion of older people than in NYC.

Absolutely correct. The real interesting part of the presentation of task force on April 23rd is effect of temperature, humidity and UV from sun. Yet almost no discussion on that. The scientist actually suggested "move activities outside". Below is the most interesting part of the presentation, IMO: Q Obviously, at the moment, the advice is stay at home. By the summer, could we be flipping that and saying you’d be much better off being outside with UV rays or the humidity that Washington brings in August? ACTING UNDER SECRETARY BRYAN: I would not go contrary to the guidance that have been issued right now. I think, though, to tell you that if — if I’m having an event with my family, I’m doing it in the driveway or in the backyard, not inside the house with my children. See below attachments. See the best practices for every american given in the presentation slide. This is what we and media should be focussing on. https://ussanews.com/News1/2020/04/23/white-house-reveals-solar-light-humidity-hugely-detrimental-to-coronavirus/

Richard, again you are taking it out of contest. I listented to the whole briefing because it was interesting from heat, humidity and light effect on Covid. The scientist in his presentation had been using inject word a bit, for example the scientist said: "If you look at the fourth line, you inject summer — the sunlight into that. You inject UV rays into that. ". But they were not injecting into a living being. They were injecting into suspended virus in air. You can check by checking word "inject" in the transcript. And the president asked the scientist "And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning. Because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs." I did not take it that it meant injecting into blood. Then a reporter asked clarification Q But I — just, can I ask about — the President mentioned the idea of cleaners, like bleach and isopropyl alcohol you mentioned. There’s no scenario that that could be injected into a person, is there? I mean — ..... THE PRESIDENT: It wouldn’t be through injection. We’re talking about through almost a cleaning, sterilization of an area. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn’t work. But it certainly has a big effect if it’s on a stationary object. So, when the reporter clarified is it injection into a person, the president said NO. To keep saying he suggested injecting bleach into a person after listening to the scientist presentation and question to scientist, the word inject has to be taken in context of scientist use - injecting into a drum of suspended virus in air. When asked about injecting into a person, the president said NO.

Richard. My quote of transcript "It wouldn’t be through injection. " was from original briefing on April 23. Its not a correction. The statement you are using to say he suggested injecting is "It wouldn’t be through injection". Transcript from April 23 when he supposedly suggested injecting bleach. Check for yourself. https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-trump-vice-president-pence-members-coronavirus-task-force-press-briefing-31/

Because that would be unfair. If I had to bold, I had to bold "by injection inside, or almost a cleaning" But then he clarified "It wouldn’t be through injection. " But then the overall statement was Trump was addressing the scientist. Trump turned to scientist and said " is there a way we can do something like that" It was a question to the scientst. People say, "He suggested injecting disinfectant", you quote the part where he suggested injecting disinfectant, but bold a bunch of stuff and exclude the part where he suggests injecting it, and then, when called on it, pretend that somehow the part you didn't bold becomes irrelevant if you add more words. Come on. Aren't you above such silly games? Wow. Richard, you should stop playing these games. He clearly clarified in same briefing "It wouldn’t be through injection. " To say he suggested injecting bleach when it is exactly opposite he said is pure lying.

I won't go through all the reasons why you are wrong, but this is a pretty blatant falsehood. They weren't even able to test all the dying and dead in NY, let alone test people who had mild symptoms. Its not a falsehood. The NY antibody testing was done in stores and shops. Not many symptomatic people are going to shops and stores these days. Almost all the sample for NY antibody is asymptomatic volunteers. Even after selecting almost entirely healthy volunteers, they got 20% exposed to Covid.

Funny how you failed to bold by injection inside. Typical of Trumpty's base. They own themselves & then ignore the fact. Because that would be unfair. If I had to bold, I had to bold "by injection inside, or almost a cleaning" But then he clarified "It wouldn’t be through injection. " But then the overall statement was Trump was addressing the scientist. Trump turned to scientist and said " is there a way we can do something like that" It was a question to the scientst. My own impression after listening to the briefing was Trump was talking about killing the virus in lungs by use of UV light or a disinfectant by direct exposure in lungs. He was asking the scientist is there a way we can do something like that. He clarified upon the question from reporter.... It wouldn’t be through injection. We’re talking about through almost a cleaning, sterilization of an area. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn’t work. Treating lung cancers using optical fibers (photodynamic therapy) or Lung wash are established treatments. Does it work like that with antiviral and UV light in lungs? I dont know. But I feel its a lie to say he recommended bleach injection when he clearly said "It wouldn’t be through injection. We’re talking about through almost a cleaning" https://health.clevelandclinic.org/how-lung-washing-helps-patients-breathe-again-video/ How ‘Lung Washing’ Helps You Breathe Again