hyten1

i do have to say as a value investor, i have a hard time understand/swallow business that eventually will produce tons of money (or potential) i guess its just in my nature, and i can relate to others in this. that is why i don't make a good VC (venture capitalist), just not in my nature.

tombgrt, i hear ya but i was thinking, free msg app has been around for a LONG LONG time on mobile. and there are already TONS of free msg apps. now unless someone all of sudden due to this deal can create one that somehow competes better (which all this time they haven't been able to) EDIT: google has there free msg app already, rumor they try to buy whatsapp for 10bil hy

hmm i hear ya, but consider this, tsla is no yet profitable on GAAP bases, biz is more capital intensive, its possible tsla has a bigger moat? whatsapp only 60 or even at 100 employee, if they charge $0.99 per user they are immensely profitable, also other service they can start. hmm, which one would you rather own? (for coolness TSLA, but purely on above i am leaning towards whatsapp, also facebook instantly makes whatsapp more valueable due to the distrubution/profit potential). i was thinking of the moat issue as well, but remember there are ALREADY TONS of free msg apps, TONS, why whatsapp at 450 mil users? jmho hy

well creating app is not the biggest issue (i am sure their app is nice and the infrastucture costs some money) its the users. the app is useless if your friends and family don't have it. also i think some of the articles have mention, they don't necessary have to charge for the message per se, but they can use the app to launch many other products and service which will then be charge. (there was a bunch of example in china, think payment, dating etc etc. prob tons of others, the reason this is more feesable is the engagement of the app, i believe whatsapp has one of the highest engagement, something like 70%+ use it daily) also correct me if i am wrong, i think whatsapp is profitable (they only have 60 so employee, if they charge $0.99 per year per user that is easily $400mil approx) hy EDIT: i am not a user, but from what i have read, whatsapp has the largest user base out of all the msg apps. i think other big ones are around 200mil. whatsapp must be doing something right to come out on top within the sea of msg apps.

longtermdave, i hear ya i guess everything in life we should just leave it as is, since we will never know if "changes can be damaging" it could be or it could make it better. i do agree with the idea of effort vs reward. maybe folks don't agree the effort will be compensated with appropriate reward in regards to improving the discussion. not sure why its not appropriate to separate the tool and the people/post. paper/pencil vs calculator vs ms excel vs computer ... hmm these are all tools i thinkgs folks are just trying to improve things, I understand the OP is not great, i'll said it again, my OP wasn't worded correctly. the msg board system from www.simplemachines.org is not the holy grail of message board system. UNLESS you believe the combination of ww.simplemachines.org + parsad + the folks here are the best that can be done (even if its the best that can be done now, it doesn't mean you can't improve it, i understand effort vs reward), in that case there isn't much else i can say. Also just a reminder, COBFF use to be on MSN message board system, the discussion was pretty lively back then as well (I understand this is both a for and against the argument of change) hy Is that separation really appropriate? I think it's underappreciated how tools and the way they're used influence our psychology and behavior. Many people here seem to sense this, and I suspect it's the source of the "don't fix what's broke" responses. If the influences are subconscious, how can you be sure some changes won't be damaging?

parsad, i hear ya, i understand where you are coming from but i have to disagree slightly with your analogy (i understand analogy is not always perfect and its not easy to come up with one sometimes). i understand COBFF is one of your babies and i respect that and i, like many folks here have said, we are very grateful and happy that COBFF exist, and its due partly to your YEARS of dedication. however COBFF is not quite like a private dinner. A private dinner board would be one that is totally close off (not anyone can just sign up). COBFF is after all a public forum (public is not 100% accurate) ANYONE can sign up, but i understand you have the right/power to decide who then gets kick off etc. Also part of what made COBFF what it is today are those folks who post/discuss on this site. To use your analogy of the dinner, your guests help you prepare the dinner in some SMALL way. also i don't believe its the food that i am trying or see if it can be improve (that would be the quality of the post) its the way maybe how we share the food and get to the food (maybe the food is put way up on the bookshelf, or maybe the food is spread out all over the house, we guests have to go around into every room to pick up bits and pieces to form a complete dish). maybe that is part of the fun :) i do agree the OP is at fault, it wasn't clear and the approach wasn't the best. in regards to the BRK website, i have to disagree again with that analogy :) the main function of BRK is investing/investments now if the website hinder or prevent BRK from doing that than i believe it would need improvement. i also don't agree with if it works we should leave it alone (see my previous iphone analogy). but i understand where that is coming from and i do agree with the idea of effort vs reward. maybe folks don't agree the effort will be compensated with appropriate reward in regards to improving the discussion. Content is the most important here i agree, but how we get to that content is also important (think netflix vs dvd etc.) ok i am going to stop now, the community are satisfy with what is available, MY BAD with the OP maybe i should start another thread, but this time i will call it "how/if can we help parsad improve COBFF's message board system?" hy

COBFF is one of my favorite boards, but honestly this thread has been very disappointing. not because many people are satisfy with what we have (I get that, if it isn't broke don't fix it) there is nothing wrong with that. it isn't broke don't fix it, i get it (I have to repeat this more than once so i don't offend anyone) its the attitude/response of the post i think part of it is due to my original post that wasn't very clear (i am trying to see if there are any improvements to the "TOOL" that people wanted that would ENHANCE the discussion), my bad. i hope people can separate between the "people/posts" vs "tool used" - why do people think improving the tool will destroy the culture (i don't get that)? there is a chance, the argument can be say for the opposite (maybe without improving it we are hurting it) - something new isn't always better, TRUE, but sometime it is. - I don't understand, spacey digs equates to improvement of the tool? (i have been/seen/participate in many startups and understand money/spacey digs don't solve everything) - again i have to point out, this is about improving the tool (assuming it can be done, that is why there is an discussion) - i don't get the comment about spark notes vs 10k as well. possibly a better way to organize/search/discuss our thoughts is consider spark notes? it is consider lazy? (some can argue, its lazy to stick with the status quo, and not constantly improving, but that is another discussion all together) this remind of the quote (i can't recall the exact words) "if you are not moving forward you are moving backwards" (don't want to imply folks are not moving foward, for all i know everyone is moving forward all the time, its just a quote) the community has spoken. hy EDIT: I hope this thread hasn't offended anyone, that was not the original intention.

Kraven here is a great example. I agree and share your sentiment. one way to solve this is allow users to post sentiment or some sort of how they are feeling today, so as not to waste a entire post. i have seen this on some discussion sites (that is not stock related) where they have dedicate options where user can say "thank you", instead of having the discussion board fill with thank you posts and take up space. just one small example jmho hy

i hear everyone's thoughts, and i agree to some extend unless this message board/discussion enabling software is the best in the world, there are always room for improvement :) i understand peoples argument (its good enough for what we want etc etc.) I hear ya. I just thought, maybe, just maybe we can do even better, the discussion could be even more useful, the quality could be even better, more people can be involve in the discussion etc. etc. i mean i am sure before iphone came out (i am sure i'll get tons of crap about this crappy analogy) everyone thought the mobile phones were good enough "look we can do all the things that we want etc". but then iphone came, the rest is history NOT saying whatever that we can come up with will be the next iphone, just trying to make the point, there is room for improvement and you never know, the improvements just might surprise you or it might not. sometimes the smallest change can make the biggest difference. ALSO I think people keep getting things mix up. We (at least i am not saying) the quallity/people of the post needs improvement (well there is always room for improvement, but that is another thing all together). I am referring to the TOOL that needs improvement. also to the point that long repetitive shows thing in real time, and there is value in that. I agree, but that doesn't mean you can't ALSO have concise and to the point/summary. jmho hy

parsad, i hope i didn't come off saying i don't like COBFF i think COBFF is one of the best value investing forum around, like i said before at the end of the day how good a board is, it all depends on the people involve, the tool (the message board/forum software) is secondary. good folks and quality posts COBFF have in spades!!! my only thought was to maybe/its possible to improve "the tool", not the quality of the post. hy

some of my other thoughts are: - able to view in threaded mode/just list? - able to like or dislike a thread/post (kind of like reddit or quora) where the good stuff bubbles up etc.? - another idea is to allow users to tag a post as bear/bull, or allow user to post to a dedicated bull/bear section (for the each thread) so that whenever users visit the thread the bull/bear case are layout in front of you pretty obviously (all post will be tag by user, timestamp etc etc.) instead of user needed to go through the entire thread to search for them? (kind of like the shld google doc that i created but obviously more dynamic etc.)

i hear you guys, i agree COBAFF is an awesome message board, so far I got: - better/internal thread search - responsive site (which will mean work well on phones) - ? hy

i hear ya guys, at the end of day its about the people and discussion not the tool but i thought maybe the tool can be improve to help the discussion hy

folks, i was wondering what everyone thinks about a new type of thoughts/post/message sharing website. one thing i have notice in regards to traditional message boards (like this one) is how post can be confusing, repetitive and sometimes just not the best way to share our ideas and thoughts for example the SHLD thread, many of the same comments, thoughts and idea are being repeated over and over again. and searching for important information among its thousands of posts can be confusing and difficult. i was thinking of creating a new message board that will solve some of the issue above? what is everyones thoughts on this? is it worth while? will people use it? what are some of your wants? i was thinking of a message/post/idea sharing site that will be a combination of: COBF (traditional message board) + reddit + valueinvestorclub + SHLD google doc that i have created earlier to highlight some of the bear/bull case (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1QUeOJEJhD7_Q9WF2b-U_UV11L7gR2SXfYZ7QXE0CxEI/edit) what do you guys think? EDIT: hopefully the new message will allow us to share/discuss/discover/understand ideas more efficiently and easily hy

interesting http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-02-06/lehman-brothers-maybe-sold-warren-buffett-a-rainbow.html

wd40 EDIT: hmm i guess it has a market cap of 1bil, not small cap anymore hy

same here i always tell people if you don't plan to do the work (read, read, read) put in index fund or brk and add over time. no one has done it, i find it so odd. hy

- electrical/computer engineering major - participate/co-founder various internet startups (finance, real estate, advertising industry) - did a little bit of export to china (scrap metal, recycle material) - now a private investor (equity, startups, real estate)

man, only 1.8bil fine? that is pretty sweet deal, you are still a billionaire hy

I generally hate and stay away from companies with lots of debt. However recently, this past year or so I started to look at them due to various post on this forum in regards to companies like AIQ, GNCMA, telecom (mostly due to packer) i am still getting comfortable with it, I was wondering what are somethings you guys look out for and how do you get comfortable with them? (I think I have a deep psychological disdain for debt which can get irrational sometimes) i understand you look at debt coverage with cash, interest coverage and its trend etc. would like to hear peoples comments, suggestions, gotchas, experience etc. hy

i use a combination of - yahoo finance - fidelity - quicken hy

racemize, i agree its just a way for me to compare to something. the other ways is like you said, i would have to basically invest in the indexe virtually to compare to the actual investment i am making, which is too much work :) EDIT: basically it depends on what your benchmark is. what i am trying to compare is active vs completely passive. i am comparing doing work (picking stock) vs me doing no work at all (which is everytime i put in money it automatically gets invested in indexes). obviously i have some control. i usually add money when i think there are opportunities, which usually coincide with the indexes be down) hy I actually tend to disagree with this approach. e.g., if I were to invest in the S&P, I would not do it in the same manner I would invest in stocks. For example, some of the skill is identifying when is a good time to buy a security, and which may correspond to a market downturn (e.g., 2009/2011). An indexer will not do this; instead, they would dollar cost average and never pay any attention. Thus, I think putting the same amount of money in the S&P at the same time either gives too much benefit to the S&P benchmark if you are right, or doesn't give credit to the S&P benchmark if you are wrong.

i have a massive spreadsheet that tracks all this, also tracks progress of family members (how much they put in, their returns, units etc.) to be more accurate you should track how you do compare to the indexes in regards to inflow and outflow. meaning if you add $100,000 into your fund, it also means you invest 100,000 into the indexes. so that you can compare how your fund is doing relative to how well/worst the indexes would of done. hy

i just want to make money

up as of now little over 32%