Canadian election poll!

[Smazz]

Unfortunately, they are so focussed on keeping their base happy they keep pissing everyone else off.

they think that everyone thinks like them who actually cares if Layton got a BJ in, what? 1996?

Damn, they are so out of touch. I really hope Harper goes down south to retire with the Bushs

 

 

. Monday may be quite the historic event in Canadian politics.

but a short lived one at that - we all know it wont last long.

 

perhaps we should start a new poll "how long till the NEXT election?"

[EdWatchesBoxing]

I think proportional rep would work for appointing the Senate. At least it wouldn't be a useless waste of money then, or maybe less of a waste.

[TorontoRaptorsFan]

You guys should stick to investing and not politics.

 

The polls are wrong. The Conservatives will win.

 

In my office my entire staff is voting Conservative (12 in all)

[augustabound]

You guys should stick to investing and not politics.

 

The polls are wrong. The Conservatives will win.

 

In my office my entire staff is voting Conservative (12 in all)

 

I didn't realize the election was confined to your office.  I guess I'd better stay home tomorrow.  ;)

 

Time and time again these polls have been found to be off the mark...............except all the polls that had Rob Ford winning the Mayoralty race in Toronto......

[augustabound]

I would hazard a guess of a Conservative minority with NDP and Liberals in a tight fight for opposition. 

I would also guess that more Liberal voters will stay home tomorrow and more NDP voters may very well vote.  I think total turnout will be higher than usual, but they may tend to be NDP supporters voting for Jack Layton, not the party itself.  Liberals and Conservatives I think, will be voting for the party rather than the leader.

[Uccmal]

 

In my office my entire staff is voting Conservative (12 in all)

 

Do you beat them if they say otherwise?

[Smazz]

You guys should stick to investing and not politics.

 

The polls are wrong. The Conservatives will win.

 

In my office my entire staff is voting Conservative (12 in all)

 

Did the boss tell them which way to vote?

[augustabound]

You guys should stick to investing and not politics.

 

The polls are wrong. The Conservatives will win.

 

In my office my entire staff is voting Conservative (12 in all)

 

Did the boss tell them which way to vote?

 

Maybe their "boss" is Stephen Harper.  ;)

[Smazz]

You guys should stick to investing and not politics.

 

The polls are wrong. The Conservatives will win.

 

In my office my entire staff is voting Conservative (12 in all)

 

Did the boss tell them which way to vote?

 

Maybe their "boss" is Stephen Harper.  ;)

that was the idea behind the joke! ;D

[jeffmori7]

What have you done in Ontario? It will be really sad for Canada in the next 4 years.

[twacowfca]

Here's my superficial comment from south of the border: Harper will win.  Ask me why .

[TorontoRaptorsFan]

Like I stated before, leave the politics to the experts and focus instead on investing.

 

As I correctly predicted the Conservatives would win. And I'm a very, very happy man because of it!

 

Harper is going to be great with a majority mandate!  ;D

[nodnub]

Like I stated before, leave the politics to the experts and focus instead on investing.

 

As I correctly predicted the Conservatives would win. And I'm a very, very happy man because of it!

 

Harper is going to be great with a majority mandate!  ;D

 

Hi TO.RaptorsFan,

 

How do you think Harper will be good for Canada?  Or how will the Conservative majority be good for you personally?

 

I would like to try to get past any personal bias and see the other side of the coin, so I would like to hear your answers.

 

Thank you,

[tengen]

Here's my take.

 

A Harper majority will be good for Canada if the majority gives Harper the confidence to leave the safe cocoon of his right wing base and move towards the centre. This means continued fiscal prudence but less of the ideology that I have found a bit scary on occasion. This could kill the Liberals for good.

 

I kind of like Happy Jack but his financial policies leave me quite unhappy and I think the NDP will have a hard time bearing up under the much greater scrutiny they are going to be facing.

 

As for the Liberals, maybe their time has finally passed. How the mighty have fallen.

 

Confession: Yes, I'm a long time Liberal supporter.

[Smazz]

Like I stated before, leave the politics to the experts and focus instead on investing.

 

If you really felt that way you would have stayed out of the thread.

 

HAving said that, I think i lost some sleep over the results.

 

This is the man btw, that thought it was a good idea to follow the states blindly into Iraq.

 

Im not leaving anything to "the experts" as they are expert in nothing - thats why they are in politics. Most cant do anything else/.

[EdWatchesBoxing]

I was looking at the results in the Mississauga ridings this morning. I imagine the rest of the GTA showed similar results, but man, the vote split killed the liberals.

[Uccmal]

Ah well, Life goes on....

 

Makes diddly squat difference to me personally who won - I will pay enough taxes for a few Canadians regardless.  Unless Harper can learn to work with others, including those in his own party this is going to end very badly for the conservatives.  He's got his chance to prove 60% of us wrong now.

 

I liked Ignatieff's resignation comments on the state of the Liberal Party "the surest way to get the liberals back in the game is to have 4 years of Conservative majority, with four years of NDP opposition" - worked in 1993 when the Cretin deleted out the real conservatives.

 

Some strange anomalies: In one riding in PQ the NDP candidate did not campaign, and in fact was in Vegas a week ago for a weeks vacation.  She won by 6000 votes.  In my own riding the conservative candidate was an unknown, did not campaign, and beat an incumbent liberal who is honest, works hard, and campaigned vigorously.

 

 

[Uccmal]

 

 

Im not leaving anything to "the experts" as they are expert in nothing - thats why they are in politics. Most cant do anything else/.

 

LOL - the opposite holds true - many normal intelligent people dont do politics very well....

[Guest broxburnboy]

 

How do you think Harper will be good for Canada?  Or how will the Conservative majority be good for you personally?

 

I would like to try to get past any personal bias and see the other side of the coin, so I would like to hear your answers.

 

Thank you,

 

I tend toward libertarianism in social policy (the state has no place in the nations bedrooms or punishes victimless crimes), and small c (Adam Smith) conservatism in fiscal policy. I recognize the wisdom of universal health care, gun control, level playing field in education and graduated tax structure.

I believe that the most important things that the previous Liberal gov't accomplished were:

Balancing the budget from the free spending Mulroney/Trudeau days.. even returning a surplus, with reasonable tax rate structure.

Creating an independent, competent Canada Pension Plan that is actuarily sound. (eat your heart out America)

Keeping Canada out of the ruinous wars in the Middle East.

Introducing a taxpayer funded subsidy to viable political parties, freeing them from reliance on private lobbyists for funding (bribes).

 

Harper has already reversed the Canada as honest peacekeeping broker role.

He reneged on his pledge to balance the budget by cutting corporate taxes, spending on useless military hardware and "security" while borrowing to make up the difference (passing the bill down the line to the next generation).

He has made noises about "privatizing" the CPP as a sop to Bay Street financiers.

He will immediately cut funding for political parties, putting them back in hock to the lobbyists.

Throw in the reappearance of the anti-abortion crowd, the gun nut lobby, fearmongering about the "muslim peril", attacks on personal liberties and you get a general picture of the next 4 years.

[KFRCanuk]

Harper has already reversed the Canada as honest peacekeeping broker role.

He reneged on his pledge to balance the budget by cutting corporate taxes, spending on useless military hardware and "security" while borrowing to make up the difference (passing the bill down the line to the next generation).

He has made noises about "privatizing" the CPP as a sop to Bay Street financiers.

He will immediately cut funding for political parties, putting them back in hock to the lobbyists.

Throw in the reappearance of the anti-abortion crowd, the gun nut lobby, fearmongering about the "muslim peril", attacks on personal liberties and you get a general picture of the next 4 years.

 

Canadian Wheat board will be gone too.

[oec2000]

Harper is impossible to work with.  His brand of politics is just plain nasty.  He would rather shut the doors than debate anything.  His government has no vision, he hates women, and is a bully.  What more reasons do we need?  I am in the anyone but Harper camp right now. 

 

I believe that the most important things that the previous Liberal gov't accomplished were:

Balancing the budget from the free spending Mulroney/Trudeau days.. even returning a surplus, with reasonable tax rate structure.

Creating an independent, competent Canada Pension Plan that is actuarily sound. (eat your heart out America)

Keeping Canada out of the ruinous wars in the Middle East.

Introducing a taxpayer funded subsidy to viable political parties, freeing them from reliance on private lobbyists for funding (bribes).

 

Harper has already reversed the Canada as honest peacekeeping broker role.

He reneged on his pledge to balance the budget by cutting corporate taxes, spending on useless military hardware and "security" while borrowing to make up the difference (passing the bill down the line to the next generation).

He has made noises about "privatizing" the CPP as a sop to Bay Street financiers.

He will immediately cut funding for political parties, putting them back in hock to the lobbyists.

Throw in the reappearance of the anti-abortion crowd, the gun nut lobby, fearmongering about the "muslim peril", attacks on personal liberties and you get a general picture of the next 4 years.

 

As a Conservative/Harper supporter, I have difficulty understanding the visceral dislike some people have of Harper and wonder whether this is evidence based or simply ideological and personal.

 

Uccmal, you say Harper has no vision and is a bully. Wasn't Chretien the same? Yet, most people would say the Chretien Liberals were decent stewards. (Sure, had ethical issues - for which they were rightly brought down - and they also "crippled" our healthcare budgets.)

 

Visionaries and nice guys do not necessarily make good leaders (Hitler and Jimmy Carter come to mind respectively) and bullies can be great (think Lee Kuan Yew). I use these examples not to disparage visionaries or justify bullies - merely to make the point that we should judge our politicians by their intellect, policies and actions than by their personalities (or worse still, by their appearance.)

 

"He hates women." ??? Surely, this is a bit strong? What exactly has he done to women or women's rights?

 

Broxburnboy, aren't you are engaging in fearmongering of your own with your talk of anti-abortion, gun nuts, the muslim peril and personal liberties? There is no denying that part of the Conservative base has kooks with these views but do they really reflect the views of Harper and the mainstream Conservatives? Maybe I do not follow politics closely enough but I have not heard/seen any signs that point to Harper seriously heading down this road. Anyway, we will soon know now that he has been given the mandate to do what he wants.

 

I am no apologist for the Harper Conservatives and I do not think they are without fault. However, the reality is that in truly democratic societies, it is impossible for a highly ethical and honest person to be a successful politician - how would Buffett fare in politics, I wonder? So, I believe we are left with the option of choosing the least bad leader. And, we simply can't do that if we choose to look at the potential candidates through idealistic ideological filters - no one can pass the test.

 

Despite not having a majority mandate so far, Harper has done a commendable job of balancing the conflicting demands put on the govt and economy responsibly and prudently; he has generally managed to chart a steady and consistent course (avoiding the knee-jerk type of policies so commonly employed down south to deal with burning popular issues of the day); and imo he has genuinely tried to do the right thing most of the time (e.g. income trusts and Afghanistan) rather than succumbing to the temptation of doing the popular thing.

 

Imo, this is what differentiates them from the Liberals who have become the "opinion poll" party whose policies are driven by polls rather than by what they believe to be right (resulting in their constant flip-flopping on issues).

 

I am truly curious to know what you guys see that the Harper's govt has actually done badly (major consequential stuff) that make you think so negatively about him. I am not a dyed in the wool conservative and honestly want to see what I am missing, if anything.

[Myth465]

Im enjoying this. Im so used to hearing about American crazies, its nice to know other countries have these same sort of debates.

[Guest broxburnboy]

"Broxburnboy, aren't you are engaging in fearmongering of your own with your talk of anti-abortion, gun nuts, the muslim peril and personal liberties? "

 

If I were fearmongering, I would have voiced these concerns Before the election.

 

Consider the facts:

 

Our foreign policy has turned 180 degrees from international peacekeeper to aggressive neo-con policeman. Military hardware spending is on offensive weaponry while our coast guard and civil defense suffer. We have tightened up border and internal security against a threat that has never been directed at us and invaded a country whose population I doubt, has ever heard of Canada, little own want to hurt us. By all appearances Harper has a role as best supporting actor on the world stage scheduled for the ground invasion of Libya.

 

We are to get new jails ( a multibillion dollar payoff to Tory construction firms) which we neither need nor want. The law and order rhetoric will quickly be implemented and our jail population increase at great expense to taxpayers. Capital punishment will be back on the table.

 

The long gun registry will be abolished as the first order of business along with funding for opposition parties.

 

As a leader, Harper has shown disdain for parliament and has no clear sucessor(s) being groomed. In fact he tends to purge the party of competent people who he perceives as threatening to his personal power. Compare this with Chretien who kept Paul Martin around because he was a competent finance minister, in spite of the legendary animosity between the two.

 

Be careful what you wish for, you might get it.

[Cardboard]

I think that this election is a very positive outcome for Canada for two reasons.

 

1- Gridlock is fine for a while, but you can't have it permanently. Something needs to get done eventually and it can only be accomplished with a majority. If Harper and Co. do bad things with their majority you can rest assured that they will be kicked out in 4 years. They have their chance now, so we will see.

 

2- The Bloc is dead. This is hugely positive for our country. Even its chief Duceppe was not elected in his own riding and then resigned. There is still a chance that some of these .... will join the PQ in Quebec and try to push the sovereign idea once again, but I think that Quebecers have had it. The Bloc lost in part because of that push.

 

For those of you that believe that Harper will move to the far Right with a majority, I think that your fears are unfounded. Many seats won in the Toronto area were key to get a majority. These could turn Left in no time in 4 years (NDP merging with Liberals is a possibility) and the message from Quebec is that they are more supportive of Left type policies. So IMO, he will be gravitating toward the middle.

 

Cardboard 

[Uccmal]

oec2000, Your comments are fair.  This is not the best forum for addressing it but I will answer what I see.

 

Vision: The Harper government has lacked vision.  Perhaps this is not fair when compared to the predecessor governments, as you note.  They have served as reasonable caretakers but little more.  They have no national vision for science, business, energy, or much of anything else that I can recall hearing.  Balance the budget in 5 years maybe?  Much of what they are about is dismantling things.  Caretakers, nothing more.  Their campaign presented nothing tangible that will improve our lives.  No vision for childcare, no vision to make Canada a great country in education, no vision for anything.  

 

Bullying:  Harper allows only a handful of his MPs to say anything public.  They stay on message or else.  Even his 4-5 questions per day is a form of bullying of the press.   Dale Goldhawk was lamenting how much of a hassle it is to ask questions of MPs who are afraid to say anything at all.  this experience is commonly related by the media.

 

Woman's rights:  I wish my wife were home to type this.  First there is his treatment of women in his own party:  Rona Ambrose, Helena Geurgis, Bev Oda et al.  Why do his male MPs never get strung out to dry like the women?  Then there is the whole stance on Universal daycare, childcare etc.  They have been reversing years of progress to help women into the workforce.  My wife tells me that specifically the Harper government has attacked programs aimed at improving the lot of women.  The guy believes that women belong in the home.  I believe that he personally detests women.

 

 

 

Niceness is not a requirement to lead and maybe a liability but vision, and civility probably are.