Fund recommendation

[Shane]

I've been increasingly happy that I joined this forum, thank you for the information.

[Shane]

Does anyone here invest in Bruce Fund, BRUFX?  I have been following it for a little while, and its performance is great when looking at 15 year to now.  However, some articles I have read on it mention that it trailed very badly in the 90's with only 5% average gain.  I can't decide if I find this attractive or not, this was the time when tech stocks were booming and it may mean that he will not fall into stocks he cant understand and therefore missed the boat and avoided a bubble.

  It is difficult for me to find information on his performance since inception, I'd like to know this his excellent performance in the past was not because of a few good years that sent the fund booming.

[vinod1]

Does anyone here invest in Bruce Fund, BRUFX?  I have been following it for a little while, and its performance is great when looking at 15 year to now.  However, some articles I have read on it mention that it trailed very badly in the 90's with only 5% average gain.  I can't decide if I find this attractive or not, this was the time when tech stocks were booming and it may mean that he will not fall into stocks he cant understand and therefore missed the boat and avoided a bubble.

  It is difficult for me to find information on his performance since inception, I'd like to know this his excellent performance in the past was not because of a few good years that sent the fund booming.

 

Taking a very quick look it underperformed from its inception till late 1999. Most of the out performance came from 2002-2007 period. Maybe the manager improved his skill. To really assess his performance, reading up his letters to see how he thinks might give you a better indication of his performance. You might find more feedback on the Morningstar board about this fund.

 

Vinod

[Packer16]

I just completed a look at investment rerturns on funds over the past 10 to 15 years for myself and my Dad.  The top funds are Fairholme, Yacktman and Chou.  The one disadvantage of Fairholme is size ($17 billion).  Some other value funds have really been hurt when they became large (Dodge & Cox is an example).  Yacktman had a bad stretch of relative performance in the late 90s that dragged performance down to other value funds such as Third Ave and Mutual Series.  Does anyone know the story behind this underperformance? 

 

Another alternative to funds are investment holding companies that hold securities or whole business.  Some of these have outperformed all the funds and include Fairfax, WR Berkley, HCC, Loews and Leucadia.  All of these are trading at either below or slightly above book value (HCC and Leucadia).  Leucadia sounds like they are cranking up Berkcadia so its value may appreciate nicely.

 

Packer   

[twacowfca]

Does anyone here invest in Bruce Fund, BRUFX?  I have been following it for a little while, and its performance is great when looking at 15 year to now.  However, some articles I have read on it mention that it trailed very badly in the 90's with only 5% average gain.  I can't decide if I find this attractive or not, this was the time when tech stocks were booming and it may mean that he will not fall into stocks he cant understand and therefore missed the boat and avoided a bubble.

 It is difficult for me to find information on his performance since inception, I'd like to know this his excellent performance in the past was not because of a few good years that sent the fund booming.

 

Taking a very quick look it underperformed from its inception till late 1999. Most of the out performance came from 2002-2007 period. Maybe the manager improved his skill. To really assess his performance, reading up his letters to see how he thinks might give you a better indication of his performance. You might find more feedback on the Morningstar board about this fund.

 

Vinod

 

The period from 2002 - 2007 was one of the best ever for outperformance of long equity value funds.  many managers looked like geniuses during this time.  Monish Pabrai's first fund was the best performer of 2000 funds, including hedge funds, during this period according to a study I saw then.  Yet, some on this board outperformed Monish, and have continued to outperform the market under very different conditions since then.  

 

The true test of outperformance is the long haul, including periods of underperformance.  I was mostly out of the market by 1997 and completely out by 2000 before the bubble popped.  If I had been a fund manager,  I would have been killed as an underperformer then.  But it sure was nice to be 100% in cash while the market melted down and then be a buyer of bargains instead of a forced seller.  :)

[Shane]

Yes I have decided I'm not that impressed with BRUFX, I'm actually having a very difficult time finding a fund I think is truly exceptional.  WPOPX (Weitz opportunity) seems like something that might fit the bill, as well as FPACX (FPA crescent), but their fee's are pretty substantial which makes me nervous of their future.  When one looks at alpha, would alpha need to be in excess of the fund's fee for there to be a true outperformance?  When annualized returns are calculated is that net of fees usually?

 

 

[elltel]

I know of a fund manager based in the UK, but managing US Shares. I attach an image of performance. Unfortunately the fund is close for new investors now. Elltel.

[Guest broxburnboy]

My favorite fund long time is the Vertex fund. They have some new products aimed at the US market as well...Worth checking out:

 

http://www.vertexone.com/funds/alternative-funds/vertex-fund.html

[vinod1]

I just completed a look at investment rerturns on funds over the past 10 to 15 years for myself and my Dad.  The top funds are Fairholme, Yacktman and Chou.  The one disadvantage of Fairholme is size ($17 billion).  Some other value funds have really been hurt when they became large (Dodge & Cox is an example).  Yacktman had a bad stretch of relative performance in the late 90s that dragged performance down to other value funds such as Third Ave and Mutual Series.  Does anyone know the story behind this underperformance?   

 

Another alternative to funds are investment holding companies that hold securities or whole business.  Some of these have outperformed all the funds and include Fairfax, WR Berkley, HCC, Loews and Leucadia.  All of these are trading at either below or slightly above book value (HCC and Leucadia).  Leucadia sounds like they are cranking up Berkcadia so its value may appreciate nicely.

 

Packer   

 

A little info you may or may not find useful:

 

I think it might have to do with fund withdrawals for Yacktman. Assets dropped from $1.1 billion to $0.3 billion during 1998-99 period. The withdrawals might be because he loaded up on deep value stocks like Philip Mliorris and also started under performing for whatever reason early in the bubble period than the other value investors. The under performance is concentrated tightly in the three year period between 1997-1999 - a badge of honor.

 

I was told in an online message board discussion from a person who I respect enormously but do not have data that Fairholme has underperformed in its managed accounts in the mid 1990's. Since the fund did not start in this period we do not have public record.

 

Vinod

[Guest misterstockwell]

I know of a fund manager based in the UK, but managing US Shares. I attach an image of performance. Unfortunately the fund is close for new investors now. Elltel.

 

Is that Findlay Parke?

[elltel]

yes, Findlay Park.

[Shane]

I've piggybacked some ideas from managers I know but cannot afford to invest with using sites like gurufocus.  Is there a similar site for UK or CA funds,  If I cant invest with them maybe I can get some idea's?

 

I've been messing with sedar a little this afternoon and I don't see any listing of holdings like the SEC requires (13F or G), Is this true?

[Parsad]

My favorite fund long time is the Vertex fund. They have some new products aimed at the US market as well...Worth checking out:

 

I know Jeff McCord.  They are good guys at Vertex.  Their office is less than a block away from ours.  Cheers!

[calonego]

I've spent time doing DD on Vertex for a friend...

Met with John Thiessen and spoke to Matt Wood a couple times on the phone (the two PMs there).

They seem very smart and capable - they also have a great mid-term track record.

Their ideas have tended to be smart and well thought out. Not bullet-proof, but very good.