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CLM5

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  1. Wasn't sure where to put this, but figured it fit in better here than most of the other sections. Given what's going on in the US markets, I've been looking abroad for ideas. I've found many ideas that unfortunately wind up being in countries where I cannot make purchases. One such place is India, where I've found many interesting ideas. Does anyone know if there is any way for a non-indian US citizen to buy companies listed on Indian exchanges? I was hopeful when I saw interactive Brokers list India as a supported exchange, but apparently it's only available to Indian citizens or NRIs. I've looked into opening an account with an Indian brokerage, but ran into the same issue. Hoping someone has some knowledge in this area that could be helpful. Thanks!
  2. Understood on the first part. The company already shows negligible, if not negative, bottom line so a significant amount of taxes are already shielded. Like I said, they're already levered at 5-6x EBITDA which is abnormally high for a public company... not sure if it's abnormal for private or PE portfolio companies. I just can't understand how another dividend recap makes sense at this point. Your second paragraph pretty closely mirrors Kab's comment. I think this is a pretty important point and much of what I was missing. Another point is that the cap on interest expense deduction is moving from 30% of EBITDA to 30% of EBIT in 2022, which makes that much leverage look rather stupid in a few years.
  3. What exactly are the qualifications to classify it as a return of capital vs a dividend?
  4. Good point, I never thought of it this way.
  5. Kab, that would make sense to me when thinking about a portfolio company that PE has held for a while. But what about a situation in which they immediately do a dividend recap? If you're trying to reduce risk and take capital off the table immediately, then why invest in the company at all... Your second and third sentences do make a lot of sense to me though, thanks for that.
  6. Could someone who perhaps understands this better than I explain to me the purpose behind a dividend recap? They seem to be very popular among PE firms - where they purchase unlevered, private companies, lever them up, and then essentially distribute out all that cash. I don't quite understand the point of this. Sure, you get a portion of your initial invested capital back, but it can't be tax efficient (and I can't imagine after tax returns look all that enticing?), and you're leaving the company in a much worse situation as well as worth much less than when you found it. I ask because of a personal situation. I have a family member who works for a private insurance brokerage that is owned by a PE firm. The brokerage is essentially a roll up, massively levering up to go after small brokerages at low multiples. When the initial PE firm bought out the private company, it was unlevered. They then did a dividend recap, and continued to lever up to pursue a rollup. At this point, the company is levered around 5-6x EBITDA, with a lot of noise in the EBITDA/adjusted EBITDA numbers they present due to the huge amount of acquisitions they perform every year. This next part is what confuses me. Earlier this year, the initial PE firm sold their stake to another PE firm. This new PE firm intends to perform ANOTHER dividend recap with the already massive amount of leverage. I could probably wrap my head around this at a private company in an industry with highly predictable cash flows. And an insurance brokerage has pretty predictable cash flows... but when you're performing a rollup, buying out small, private mom and pop shops where the only thing you're buying is their book/relationships and they no longer have any incentive to perform for you, that scares the shit out of me. I guess I went off on a bit of a tangent there... but can anyone explain the point of dividend recaps to me? I don't understand how they produce positive results for anyone involved (excluding the banks that is...).
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