alpha231616967560 Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Anybody has an exhaustive list of preferred trust. I guess some of those must have gone down quite a bit with the volatility. I'm interested by Trust Preferred because they won't count as Tier 1 capital pretty soon. So even if you are buying 30Y preferred you might get the principal back much sooner. BeerBaron There are trust issues intermingled here, and it is an otherwise useful reference for preferred shares: http://online.wsj.com/mdc/public/page/2_3024-Preferreds.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junto Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Here is a list of preferreds that is worth sorting through every now and again: It is a google document http://bit.ly/oOeDmc Hopefully the link works well. It shows yield, payment date, stated coupon, current price, etc... all real time/20 minute delay. Nice resource. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddballstocks Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 I've used this site in the past it has a ton of data on income securities: http://www.quantumonline.com/ Preferreds, convertables, odd income securities, MLPs etc all there. I believe you need to create a user name to access the data but everything is free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grenville Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Here is a list of preferreds that is worth sorting through every now and again: It is a google document http://bit.ly/oOeDmc Hopefully the link works well. It shows yield, payment date, stated coupon, current price, etc... all real time/20 minute delay. Nice resource. Very nice and well organized. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oec2000 Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 I always wanted to thank Dcollon for this thread. One of the Preferred issues that looked okay back then I have held ever since. Royal Bank of Scotland: RBS.PR.P on the NYSE - 0.0625% on par value of $25.00 I have quadrupled my position in this in the last two weeks. It traded up around $18 last winter and has sort of been in decline ever since. Right now the yield is around 13%... It is trading at 50% of its par value. Now for RBS - I am by no means an expert on the company. However, they have passed all the stress tests they have been through. We are at least a year away from the worst of the mortgage morass. Their core capital tier 1 ratio is 11.5%. Obviously they will feel some effect if a major Euro power defaults but that is built into the stress tests. Finally, correct me if I am wrong but I have not seen a bank anywhere default on its preferred shares completely, that has remained a going concern. RBS thought these securities were cheap two years ago and tried to buy them in at $14.00. I dont think they got too many. The float still seems pretty robust. Al, I thought RBS suspended the dividends on all their preferreds as a condition of the govt support they received. Did I miss something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericd1 Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 OEC, yes, the dividends were suspended (cept for the "F" series) - and the pfds are not cummulative... Please note that following discussions with the European Commission RBS has agreed to the deferral of coupons and payments on certain hybrid capital securities for a period of two years. This two year deferral period commenced on 30 April 2010 for RBS Group securities and will commence on 1 April 2011 for RBS Holdings NV (formerly ABN AMRO Holdings NV) securities. For a list of affected securities refer to the Schedule. http://www.investors.rbs.com/preference_dividends The bank appears to be doing well with its reorganization. Perhaps it is time to re-visit these! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oec2000 Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 OEC, yes, the dividends were suspended (cept for the "F" series) - and the pfds are not cummulative... Please note that following discussions with the European Commission RBS has agreed to the deferral of coupons and payments on certain hybrid capital securities for a period of two years. This two year deferral period commenced on 30 April 2010 for RBS Group securities and will commence on 1 April 2011 for RBS Holdings NV (formerly ABN AMRO Holdings NV) securities. For a list of affected securities refer to the Schedule. http://www.investors.rbs.com/preference_dividends The bank appears to be doing well with its reorganization. Perhaps it is time to re-visit these! Thanks. Maybe I am anchored to the crazy yields we saw in 2009 but the RBS-Ps don't scream out to me just yet, especially with suspended dividends. I was short RBS common in the low teens but have covered most of my positions. Seems to me the US banks are much further ahead in terms of restructuring and capital strengthening and offer much better risk/reward tradeoffs. The yield on BAC-L is not far off RBS-P's. I'm more attracted by the potential returns on bank common, warrants and LEAPs given that they are trading at such huge discounts to book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oec2000 Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 In 2009, we could get similar or even better returns while taking lower risk by buying preferreds instead of common. Today, bank common (and derivatives) offer the potential for significantly higher returns over preferreds in return for not materially higher risk. That's my take, anyway, fwiw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uccmal Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Oec/Eric, You are correct on the dividends. I got confused with another security. Trying to follow too much in this volatile market. The Ps return to dividend paying capacity in April, assumming they are not resuspended. They will have to start these back up before issuing new ones to re-establish trust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericd1 Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 I compared several of the RBS pfds and if they are priced at a ~14% yield (cept they aren't paying). The paying F series trades at a yield of 10.3%. There's ~40% upside if the other pfds to trade at a 10% yield and ~115% if they trade at par. The bank is still losing money, but has passed the EU's stress tests and is making progress on the disposal of non-core assets. There's still a lot of unknowns and this is in the too hard pile for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpha231616967560 Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 I recently came across this article that lays out some scenarios for the European banks (including RBS) given what the author (Egan-Jones) deems likely outcomes in the each of the peripheral nations: http://online.barrons.com/article/SB50001424053111904637304576434180949687522.html#articleTabs_panel_article%3D2 They actually estimate the RBS exposure at €105b and that 70% of that will eventually be written down. This is one of the clearer summaries that I've read of the situation in Europe as it pertains to the Euro-banks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hellsten Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 I'm bumping this thread because I think it's one of the best on this board and also because I don't fully understand preferreds. I have never really considered investing in preferred stocks during 2009 or after, but this thread has changed my mind; too bad the party is over… Looking at this spreadsheet is enough to see what opportunities I, and others who didn't invest in preferreds, missed: https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pal75Wd8M5DN4QaPNLKc0IQ RBS-P was a lottery ticket that paid off nicely by rising close to par. RBS-P has paid an incredibly high dividend to those who bought low and hold it until redemption. What I don't understand is why RBS-P is up more than 750% since March 2009, and RBS (ADR) is up 120%. Maybe someone here, perhaps Uccmal, knows the story? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StubbleJumper Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Heavens, I made so much money off WCF-L, HBC-, ORH-A, TSX:CCS-E and a preferred that was issued by Epcor. Some of those purchases were just silly obvious as they were effectively a binary outcome of a return to near-par or a complete zero if armagedon of the financial system occurred. And if the financial system did totally blow up, would any financial asset have been worth anything? Effectively, had I been uncomfortable with any of the tickers that I listed, then logically I should instead have put my money into non-perishable food, ammunition and gold bullion! Good memories! SJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sullivcd Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 Anyone seeing any bargains here yet? Ns-c is one that I follow that has been crushed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drzola Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 Is WFC-L better then USD cash here for a CDN investor in their RRSP and RRIF at todays current ask/bid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpioncapital Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 Anyone know a study or site that shows statistics on dividend suspension of preferred shares in the USA over time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xaston Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 Anyone seeing any bargains here yet? Ns-c is one that I follow that has been crushed I bought some Synchrony preferreds on Monday that seemed like a great deal to me. My first ever purchase of preferred stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaegi2011 Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 Anyone seeing any bargains here yet? Ns-c is one that I follow that has been crushed I bought some Synchrony preferreds on Monday that seemed like a great deal to me. My first ever purchase of preferred stock. This seems like a way under-researched area of the market. I'm not sure if that's because these things tend to take a dive during a downturn, or beacuse of the financials concentration most people don't go near it, or if it's just a weird space b/t FI and equity that nobody takes a look. If anyone has recommendation in terms of ways to get up to speed quickly i'd love to learn more. The CEFs on preferreds have gotten killed along with the rest of the CEFs and I'm sure there's something here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRM Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 I bought some TGP preferreds yesterday. Wouldn't be surprised if they (the preferred shares) get bought out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRM Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 and by yesterday I mean Friday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xaston Posted April 1, 2020 Share Posted April 1, 2020 Is there a quick/easy way to see how many quarters of dividends a cumulative preferred is owed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSArbitrage Posted April 1, 2020 Share Posted April 1, 2020 DCP Midstream Series B Preferred look interesting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcollon Posted September 25, 2020 Author Share Posted September 25, 2020 There is an interesting preferred that was just issued by Qurate if anyone is still looking for ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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