Hawks Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 I really wish both the right and left in America would take a step back and take a look at history. There are countless examples in the past where democratic institutions got trashed and nationalistic, autocratic governments replaced them. But in today's world, more and more people get their so called "news" via social media. The lack of facts and evidence and research via social media is appalling. Remember, those who forget or don't know their history are condemned to repeat it. No nation is immune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawks Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 Just today, a Canadian woman with a valid Cdn Passport was held at the U.S. border for 6 hours and told she would need an immigrant visa. Entry was denied by U.S. Customs. She was going to Vermont with friends to a spa she has visited many times with no problems. This is outrageous. The only thing that I can think of is her parents were originally from India, so she is not white skinned. Pretty sad. And now, just a few hours ago, Khizr Khan the father of the son who was fighting and died while in the U.S. army has been denied travel to Canada and govt is reviewing "travel restrictions" for him. He has been an American citizen for 30 years and has never experienced problems like this before. You know what is speaking engagement in Toronto was about? tolerance, understanding and rule of law". What is becoming of American society? The land of the "free"?? How many more freedoms are going to be denied and limited and to whom? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rb Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 Well I guess now it can happen to everyone. Apparently the head of Australian intelligence was held at LAX. http://www.afr.com/brand/rear-window/asis-directorgeneral-nick-warner-cops-mem-fox-treatment-at-us-border-20170304-guqo0z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawks Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 And here's another recent one. An Australian woman, aged 71, and the most famous Australian children's books author (name Mem Fox) was detained for 2 hours along with 20 other travellers at LA Airport. She was agressively asked about her finances, etc and the nature of her trip. She was to talk to a large group about children. She has visited the U.S. a total of 116 times with no problems. Here is one of her quotes: "The worst part of it (the detainment) was that I was questioned not because she was a children's author but because I was just anybody." Eventually, with her visa, she was allowed in. She has now said that after this frightening incident she will not be returning to the U.S. anymore. She felt totally humiliated by the questions being asked. If you are an American, I would be getting worried. Who is next? You? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rb Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 Well it's already having an effect. Bookings to the US are down. I'm guessing that situation won't improve while stories like these keep popping up. Not such great news for travel exports. Edit: On the other hand it looks like it won't be only foreigners the get to enjoy the new and improved airport procedures. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-03-06/tsa-warns-local-police-about-its-new-airport-pat-downs So get ready to savor the moment when the TSA guy cups your balls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert_Rat Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Totally agree with the tone here, people. We should also let those on the 'list' in too. After all, they could possibly be on their tolerant way to a book reading, occurring in a spa, and could have been intelligent. It's a condition for travel during this WAR against terrorism, snowflakes. Toughen up. And I guarantee this, the new procedures won't in any way inconvenience those with proper papers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawks Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Desert-Rat So tell me why you think Saudi Arabia was not on the list signed by your President today. That's where most of the 9/11 terrorists came from. Bin Laden included. Or is it because the U.S. sells millions of arms to the Saudis every year and your President has business interests there? No "snowflake" here, but you need to wake up to real facts and evidence, and stop listening to social media and fake news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rb Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Proper papers like Canadian women with Canadian passports or Australian dudes with diplomatic passports? As travel exports decline and profits go down and people loose their jobs are you gonna those groups to toughen up? Was there anything wrong with the previous screening procedures that made them inadequate and in need of changing? Aside from TSA agents having to think too much? God forbid that happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawks Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 rb There are thousands of Canadian Snowbirds who travel to Florida and Arizona during the Cdn winter. As more of this stupid, terrorist stuff keeps happening to innocent folks, more Snowbirds will be reluctant to go there. Just wait to see what happens to the Florida and Arizona economies who depend upon these thousands going there every year. What goes around, comes around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardGibbons Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 And I guarantee this, the new procedures won't in any way inconvenience those with proper papers. This is actually a really cool comment in light of the previous four posts showing people with proper papers being inconvenienced by the new procedures. I've actually never seen a real-life example of doublethink. In fact, I assumed that it was a science fiction construct created by Orwell rather than anything with a basis in reality. But I think Rat sincerely saw evidence that contradicted what the state had told him, and he literally forgot it existed, just as doublethink says he should. That's pretty neat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert_Rat Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 No evidence but I'm ripped with common sense. No one would be detained if they had proper papers. Guarantee it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cardboard Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Stories like these have been common for years. I can provide you some examples during the Obama years if you want or during previous presidencies. This is not a new phenomenon. What is new is that every case is now getting the scrutiny from the media. U.S. customs agents have been and continue doing a good job. They want to know what people are coming to do in the country and even with proper papers, they are intimidating. Canadian officers on the other hand are getting the direction of not asking so much that question but, how much can we tax you for what you are bringing in the country? Cardboard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rb Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 No evidence but I'm ripped with common sense. No one would be detained if they had proper papers. Guarantee it. Maybe not detained/arrested. But held back, searched, personal/electronic data copied, made late, connecting flights lost. Just what everyone dreams of on a holiday. Being inconvenienced and treated like a criminal. I'm pretty sure they know they're gonna act like dicks when they're already anticipating that people are gonna call the cops on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawks Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Cardboard Your obvious bias is coming thru time and time again. I'm trying to post real stories from real people who have never experienced such rejections, humiliation, etc in their lives. And they have travelled to and from the U.S. many times. The Australian childrens author visited your country 116 times under Republican and Democratic Presidents, but has never seen anything like this. And you think all Presidents act like Trump. The world disagrees with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert_Rat Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 rb There are thousands of Canadian Snowbirds who travel to Florida and Arizona during the Cdn winter. As more of this stupid, terrorist stuff keeps happening to innocent folks, more Snowbirds will be reluctant to go there. Just wait to see what happens to the Florida and Arizona economies who depend upon these thousands going there every year. What goes around, comes around. There are no 2017 stats I could find on travel into America, but I doubt your claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert_Rat Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 No evidence but I'm ripped with common sense. No one would be detained if they had proper papers. Guarantee it. Maybe not detained/arrested. But held back, searched, personal/electronic data copied, made late, connecting flights lost. Just what everyone dreams of on a holiday. Being inconvenienced and treated like a criminal. I'm pretty sure they know they're gonna act like dicks when they're already anticipating that people are gonna call the cops on them. Sorry but i don't believe it. If a person has proper papers and they're not a retard when asked what the purpose of their visit is, they won't be detained. If you have any knowledge of this being incorrect, enlighten me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EliG Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 No evidence but I'm ripped with common sense. No one would be detained if they had proper papers. Guarantee it. Maybe not detained/arrested. But held back, searched, personal/electronic data copied, made late, connecting flights lost. Just what everyone dreams of on a holiday. Being inconvenienced and treated like a criminal. I'm pretty sure they know they're gonna act like dicks when they're already anticipating that people are gonna call the cops on them. Sorry but i don't believe it. If a person has proper papers and they're not a retard when asked what the purpose of their visit is, they won't be detained. If you have any knowledge of this being incorrect, enlighten me. Canadian woman en route to Vermont spa denied entry to U.S., told she needs immigrant visa - Montreal - CBC News Canadian born? Check Canadian citizen? Check In possession of a valid Canadian passport? Check OTOH, she was guilty of a heinous crime. Crossing the US border while being brown skinned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rb Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 No evidence but I'm ripped with common sense. No one would be detained if they had proper papers. Guarantee it. Maybe not detained/arrested. But held back, searched, personal/electronic data copied, made late, connecting flights lost. Just what everyone dreams of on a holiday. Being inconvenienced and treated like a criminal. I'm pretty sure they know they're gonna act like dicks when they're already anticipating that people are gonna call the cops on them. Sorry but i don't believe it. If a person has proper papers and they're not a retard when asked what the purpose of their visit is, they won't be detained. If you have any knowledge of this being incorrect, enlighten me. Well for starters you can check out post 77 on this very thread. Do you actually read what people are writing or you just react and tell everyone to toughen up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawks Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Desert-Rat Wait til next winter. For 2017, most Canadians had already paid for their accommodation for Jan-March (this happens 6-12 months before they arrive), so probably nothing unusual re numbers. Let's see what the numbers are after one full year of Trump. Let's check the stats then, ok? If I'm wrong, I will admit it. Will you? RichardGibbons +1 re your comment on Orwell. America is getting closer and closer after just 2 months with this new Washington White House. I'm beginning to wonder if any Trump voters have ever heard of Orwell or read his book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert_Rat Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 No evidence but I'm ripped with common sense. No one would be detained if they had proper papers. Guarantee it. Maybe not detained/arrested. But held back, searched, personal/electronic data copied, made late, connecting flights lost. Just what everyone dreams of on a holiday. Being inconvenienced and treated like a criminal. I'm pretty sure they know they're gonna act like dicks when they're already anticipating that people are gonna call the cops on them. Sorry but i don't believe it. If a person has proper papers and they're not a retard when asked what the purpose of their visit is, they won't be detained. If you have any knowledge of this being incorrect, enlighten me. Canadian woman en route to Vermont spa denied entry to U.S., told she needs immigrant visa - Montreal - CBC News Canadian born? Check Canadian citizen? Check In possession of a valid Canadian passport? Check OTOH, she was guilty of a heinous crime. Crossing the US border while being brown skinned. Got this far: "She first had trouble getting into the U.S. last December, before Trump took office". So, I don't know what the details of this rejection is, but I can say it ain't as cut and dried as you think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert_Rat Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Well I guess now it can happen to everyone. Apparently the head of Australian intelligence was held at LAX. http://www.afr.com/brand/rear-window/asis-directorgeneral-nick-warner-cops-mem-fox-treatment-at-us-border-20170304-guqo0z the only reference to this story, whatever it is, is behind a paywall. Stop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawks Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Desert-Rat Once again you did not report all the facts, just the part that fits your opinion. Yes, she was detained in December and asked to come back the next day. Reason: U.S. immigration had problems with their computers! She came back next morning and was allowed in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EliG Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Desert-Rat Once again you did not report all the facts, just the part that fits your opinion. Yes, she was detained in December and asked to come back the next day. Reason: U.S. immigration had problems with their computers! She came back next morning and was allowed in. Yep, here's the quote from the article: She first had trouble getting into the U.S. last December, before Trump took office. She was with friends and her fiancé when her car was pulled over for what she was told was a random check, she said. She was made to fill out a number of forms, but was eventually told there was a problem with the computer system and they should return the next morning. When they went back, she was let through without any problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert_Rat Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 In fairness I did say I stopped there! FWIW, I was denied entrance on a business trip into Toronto years ago because I forgot my license. White, suit and tie, nothing in my appearance that suggest scoundrel. Shit happens; know the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottHall Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 this is boring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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